Cool it at Hardings & Stage Harbor
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 12:54
Word is there have been many complaints about kiters heading to & from the flats and Stage Harbor from Hardings. Riding in the path of boats in the channels, zig zagging through the main Stage Harbor channel in groups, coming too close to families in the water and on the beach. Can you guys get the word out - we can't be a nuisance or they'll just shut Stage Harbor to us.
We're are not allowed to kite in the boat channels, just across them. And not near any boats that are under way. In the channel to Stage Harbor, if there is any boat traffic either wait on the beach on either side until the boats clear, or walk along the beach until you get in or out of the harbor - depending on which way you are headed. Then in the harbor stay when on your tack toward the channel, stop and turn around before you get to it.
Thanks - try to keep the kookery to a minimum please.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 13:45
#1
I just heard about this
I just heard about this today. Stage Harbor is basically OFF LIMITS in the summertime. Sometimes in the evening you can get away with it but not with masses of kiters. We've been under the gun there for years and if this past weekend didn't kill it for us all then the next one will.
Also heard complaints from lifeguards of people kiting in the swim zone at Hardings. This one is obvious.
Please help get the word out to stay away from people and boats. Kiters need to take extreme caution during the summer months or there will be no more kiting there.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 13:46
#2
thanks JimmyC. I'll help get
thanks JimmyC. I'll help get the word out.
I don't even know what's so attractive about kiting in there anyways.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 14:24
#3
Not sure that this note will
Not sure that this note will find the folks there last weekend. I think it is super important that we all listen to the rules. However last weekend a group from Montreal like our trip to Hatteras was on cape and at Hardings. There were about 30-40 people all Canadian (some cuties too) all at Hardings Beach. When I arrived this whole crew was on the beach proper and had not even bothered to walk further down the beach out of the way. They do not know the rules and could not understand the life guards as the had no idea about anything other than their kite and the fact there was wind. Literally I have never seen this before and I never subscribe to local mentalities as I enjoy traveling and kiting myself. But I would be sure to say that we were out numbered 4 to 1 and about 10-15 usual numbers from or area were there and were parked way down the beach. So just want to make clear any issues stemming from Hardings to take it up with Frenchy affairs.
But if you are local and reading this just do what Brian and Jimmyc suggest really! This is about the nicest way to say it. I will try my own way to say, "stay the fuck out of the harbor on busy summer days!" You will get to go in there other times and we kite all year.
How come this was announced only here and not on NEKA?
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 14:51
#4
I was wondering that too...
I was wondering that too... made me dust off the neka site in my browser just to check. I bet they get a spike on their hits today 
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:11
#5
I was wondering what the deal was at Hardings.
I showed up at Hardings Last Thursday afternoon (6/24) and it was crawling with kiters, only a few of which of which appeared to be local. There was some crazzy stuff going on. Kites every where, swimmers getting buzzed, people tripping on lines, two kites with nested lines launching at the same time, etc. Add to that straight on shore wind and a few kids in the water and it just did not seem like fun anymore.
I just packed up and went to Forest where I and three other kiters had the beach to ourselves.
Also, I'd like to offer a mea culpa. On that prior Sunday there where a bunch of folks there as well and I contributed to the Kookiness. As I went to flip over my kite to pack it up, I let go of it and it went straight into the parking lot where Steve caught it but only after is set off a car alarm or two. Thankfully, no cars, kites, people or wildlife were harmed but there was a bit of noise polution.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 14:59
#6
I just wanted to make sure we
I just wanted to make sure we are not being singled out. I was alarmed at the number of visitors we had and just wanted to say so as it was not all locals. In the same breath a few folks reading this have taken liberties and that includes me. I am committing to the message myself to show that we can all get educated and not be stupid. A few months should not ruin our windy colder months if we as MASSkiters can spread the word effectively through the site.
Plus there are plenty of flats
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:06
#7
Not singling anyone out! Just
Not singling anyone out! Just posting here instead of NEKA because it works better to get the word out.
besides, NEKA is just for bashing
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:08
#8
The Canadian invasions keep
The Canadian invasions keep getting bigger every year!
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:26
#9
I agree and it should really
I agree and it should really be plain old common sense. But aren't we essentially small sailboats? We are small non-motorized wind craft which should always have the right of way? This stuff upsets me but in no way do I jeopardize our local kite spots as I always obey common sense and the local (albeit unofficial) rules. Just makes ya wanna smack "the man" around sometimes.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:36
#11
Brian
Thank you! I appreciate
Brian
Thank you! I appreciate and I understood. Just recently someone blamed me for the new kiters and I really am all for those that want to find kiting just as we all did. I realize the pressures such a great sport brings as it grows and so I want to remain positive. I will personally follow the rules in hopes that it makes a point that no one earns the right to ruin it for the rest of us and that is something that this site "IS" responsible for getting out there!
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:56
#12
The harbor
It is very simple to cross the channel quickly and then land on the eastern side, walk with your kite up to the harbor, throw it down, then when you're done, walk back out, tack back towards the flats staying out of the long channel north of the flats. No problems.
Experience has shown that Canadian chicks are rarely hot, they typically have bad teeth. I'm just sayin.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 07:19
#13
thanks for pointing that
thanks for pointing that out... I guess I never looked at their teeth. 
now I can't tell if I should "MA welcome Canadians" or "fuck Canadia!" t-shirts. dilemma dilemma.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 07:27
#14
I dont know what you guys
I dont know what you guys saw, But I only saw one Canadian Girl and she had all of her teeth.....
She approached me while i was taking pictures on a sandbar off monomoy.
I landed her kite so she could make some adjustments.
I have found the majority of Canadian Women to be beautiful. If you ever get a chance to stroll around montreal I think you would agree! What a great City!
I know we are a handsome bunch and I was not there for the Weekend Kookiness, Plus i lived in Vermont for a long time and may have a different persepective on what constitutes proper tooth count. (i was told more than 4 was overkill)
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:47
#15
Mike your comment about small
Mike your comment about small sailboats I do agree. They too zig zag out on SW. But lets think people ask every day "what is this sport?" Surfing and windsurfing all debuted and as the public begins to see this as an American/Canadian past time they will look at it like surfing "The Big Kahoona" those movies form the 50's that mainstreamed surfing. Today people see surfing and look at it with wonder that this represents free spirit and recreation on a summers day. But we need to look at kitesurfing today as a disruptive sport. Once enough doctors, professionals, firemen, lawyers, accountants find that this is a great way to recreate then and only then will it become an accepted part of the beach culture. It will come and I believe in the course many beaches will get closed but from not understanding. As more people have family and friends that acknowledge our sport the more they identify with it. Then and over time it will circle back and we all will laugh as the segregate us to little patches of beach as our kids break out the next genaration of overseas rocket packing or something....... But I agree that yes we are like boats but the public is still learning about this sport and what it means to those they know and trust for an opinion. Soon it will be the spectacle... Certainly if 50 people want to kite and only 5 people want the kiters gone well public wants what public does.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:59
#16
I'm all about the rocket
I'm all about the rocket packing!
Good point, people don't know how to regulate what they don't understand which makes them just not allow it.
If we were treated as sailing vessels we would need registration numbers on our kites, probably pfd's required, flares.. etc.. lets not go there
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 16:02
#17
I don't agree
It's a fine line to walk - being treated as KITEs is a problem, with the birds and no fly zones near/on the beach. Being treated as a boat has the trouble of adhering to boat safety rules. Staying in the grey area is better IMO.
And, Johnny D if I ever see you in boat shoes, khaki shorts and with a stupid embroidered lobster belt, I will punch you in the face. And you will thank me for it when you come to your senses....I'd expect anyone to do that same for me.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 16:23
#18
You also might be mistaken as
You also might be mistaken as a Chatham resident. (seasonal resident)
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:51
#19
It's all good :)
It's all good 
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 15:55
#20
Jimmy C,
Much respect. With
Jimmy C,
Much respect. With all those visitors I was worried that you were not aware of their presence. But if you dont mind me admitting I thought about this and believe that I and many others have not been so careful and it is now dead summer and we can all use the refresher! Its really only a few months that the Harbor becomes off limits. We should as a community take it upon ourselves to not go there even if others who are not aware or dont care are. I did see that there were a number of people there and I knew hardly anyone. With my kite style which I recently call "Johnny D's Water Hammer" I thought it best to not fight those that were clueless I might be that guy.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 16:26
#21
All great points. Didn't
All great points. Didn't really think about the things that would come about if we were treated as sailboats but I'd think the rights of way would still apply. I guess every new sport starts off this way. Just don't understand the stigma but I guess we are in MA and people do fear what they don't know. I do my part and I'll guess I just have to deal with it until that day when the rocket packs come about and a few of us elderly folks are still kiting.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 19:26
#22
I am personally a big fan of
I am personally a big fan of kiting along the beach inside Stage Harbor, have had numerous session there in the past month and would like to continue to do so. Was there last Monday, kiters took turns as it is a little tight, some great slick riding was had. My only beef was with an excellent kiter who was actually threading the needle between the boats and their anchors which are resting on the beach. He was throwing some incredible high jumps and kiteloops, edging just a few feet from the bystanders. Some say they were cheering and hollering, but from my vantage point, I felt like people come to this places for peace and quiet, not for front row seats to see Evil Knievel. The scene left me feeling strange and I left. I had arrived early, and the life guards were cool about launching at the main beach, and by mid morning, when the sunbathers and waders arrived, they motioned for us to move downwind and it was cool. One problem I see is that it is so newb unfriendly, choppy waters combined with wind often blowing dead onshore makes it very difficult for a beginner, then they watch everyone else have fun, get frustrated, and tempt fate. I sent some Canadians who were unsure about their skills in tackling the onshore wind and shore pound to Waquoit. I thought some of Canadian chicks were pretty hot, even though they were missing some teeth.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 19:33
#23
Neat thing called a "SIGN"
Can someone talk to the local beach master and post a legitimate sign that outlines the kite rules? Word of mouth and forums is never going to let everyone know, and it just takes one major incident to shut a place like this down. Thoughts?
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 20:48
#24
Bad idea, don't tell
Bad idea, don't tell authorities to give you rules to follow. Self policing does work, and internet forums are a great communicator.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 21:22
#25
To some extent they do
To some extent they do, but I can't tell you how many times I've been to West Dennis and people still don't understand the buoy rule (after how many years?). Mostly out of state riders or people who start early and don't have any locals around to ask. A sign post in the sand near the launch area could go a long way at avoiding issues and make it safer & more enjoyable for everyone.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 21:12
#26
It was like a zoo
Folks,
I was there with wife after 4 1/2 months off and the beach was full of people there weren't local.. At one point I've ask Jhonny to speak with them in French since my French is very limited..
They didn't know that we are not suppose to setup,launch,land etc for a list 100 yards off the swimming zone.. Some people were kiting whitin the swimming zone 
(
I believe the reason of them kiting on the channel was that the wind wasn't that strong and the current was killing them since they had very small kites the biggest was 12M..
I was trying to inform them that was some kiting rules in Chatham but they are not really used to kite rules...
So for the ones who knows the beach master just inform him that this past weekend was some non-locals there and that's why we had some small issues
I'll continue doing my part and trying to inform people to respect the beach goers and local rules..
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 22:44
#27
Is there some forum of the
Is there some forum of the "out of towners" we could post this on as an FYI?
http://www.kiteboardingcanada.ca/
looks like there's some discussion ongoing haha:
http://kitezone.ca/forum/topic/kite-a-boston#post-135174
I see some visitors post here on the site asking for local info before they come, so that's good...
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 01:22
#28
Excellent idea wolfie
Excellent idea wolfie
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 05:17
#29
Do we really want to
Do we really want to advertise our area on a Canadian forum and invite more invaders? In cape hat the locals will deflate kites if rules are not followed. According to Robert in waqouit the boats have the right of way in the channel to maintain head way speed so maybe before we get run over you abide by that rule at hardings. Lastly, why not print up "our rules for hardings" in English and french and continue to self police and hand them out. Maybe instead of leaving an area run over with people we stay and demonstrate proper rules and riding to preserve our access. Write up the rules and let's figure where we can distribute them to everyone on this site to print them out and hand them out?
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 10:01
#30
It's already been done....
flylow wrote:
Do we really want to advertise our area on a Canadian forum and invite more invaders?
That is exactly what MassKiting did for Hardings last year. And we now see the effect. So, yes I agree it should not be advertised.
We made and learned from that same mistake back in 2001 when we spoke about West Dennis on the former NEKS Yahoo Group. All of a sudden WD was kook central. It's an easy mistake to make, but doesn't lessen the suck factor when it becomes a disaster.
And btw, if you are a Chatham resident then Hardings is "your area", if not, then you are a visitor. Just like me.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 11:29
#31
Here Jimmy, this is for
Here Jimmy, this is for you
http://skreened.com/snaptees/visitors
Why don't we just spread rumors of great whites at Hardings on the Canadian forums? (which may not be far from the truth this year)
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 08:27
#32
I like the sign idea.
why
I like the sign idea.
why can't we make our own kite rules signs? we can raise some $$$ through masskiting community and make easily understood rules ( w visuals for frenchie) on a sign. we already have people at each spot who have been in contact with authorities and have the basic rules, we just need to communicate better in real time and on location. the flyers are a good stop gap temporary solution IMO.
I think we all agree that the current mode of conveying information is not working. This would demonstrate to authorities/harbormasters/lifeguards that we are self policing and I think would go far in our public relations. It would take some $ time and effort but it will be 100x as much effort if we lose access and actually start doing somehng at that point.
my $2.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 08:49
#33
The Canadian Girls were def.
The Canadian Girls were def. Hot to a select few of us that got to watch the girl in green pack her things away will def. agree with me. And a I agree a sign would go a long way.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 09:00
#34
if the locals agree that the
if the locals agree that the sign is a positive idea, we (masskiting) will gladly pay for it. I just don't want to step on anyone's toes.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 09:49
#35
Re. signage
It's a fine line - go the route of getting approved signage and maybe the town will think it's easier to just put up a "NO KITEBOARDING" sign than deal with us. Don't put up signs (which will still require self policing), and then have more issues. My intent was to self police and spread the word. I'm undecided on the benefits / detriments of signage. But I think for sure you'd need a committed Chatham resident to spearhead that campaign.
Btw, we had a ton of signs at WD a few years back - people draped their wet clothes and gear over them. No one followed the rules printed on them. Don't suppose that if signs are out people will read them or adhere to them. There will still need to be self policing.
It seems the Masskiting crew knows the rules, so if you see any other visitors there, just let them know about the swim area and channels.
I haven't even ridden at Hardings yet this year, but would like to see it still open for when I do....
Fri, 07/02/2010 - 17:28
#36
jimmyc wrote:I'm undecided on
jimmyc wrote:
I'm undecided on the benefits / detriments of signage. But I think for sure you'd need a committed Chatham resident to spearhead that campaign.
I agree. Similar to how Phil, Robert, etc. are "ambassadors" to their towns for kiting issues, we should let the Chatham folk handle this their own way when it comes to dealing with lifeguards and/or town officials. We don't want to stir anything up. Just give them our full support if and when they need it. And follow the local rules/common sense.
JimmyC was doing the right thing posting here because it was the best way to get the word out to the maximum amount of people. I'm glad we've had this discussion. It was necessary. Now many more people know the issues.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 10:08
#37
No Signage just police yourself and other kiters
Good Point Jimmy. Signs invite red flags even when they have the best intentions. I don't think any of us want to have someone who doesn't kite or understand kite boarding regulate us. The last thing we want it that to happen. Good point on the walking in part. I will do that if I decide to go in there (stage harbor) next time. Thanks for the tip.
I think we should be more worried about a kiters going into the swimming area. The lifeguards were blowing the horn every few seconds for a group of kiters that couldn't figure it out last Saturday.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 10:23
#38
Seems simple really, boils
Seems simple really, boils down to good communication between the life guards and the kiters, now if only the Canadians understood English. I will do my part and explain it in French.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 11:03
#39
Canadian Speak English too
Jean, I think a flyer en Francais would be more helpful. They speak english in Canada too but I know those Quebeccers are stubborn when it comes their French heritage, identity and language. Perhaps we can write a a simple flyer in both English and Francais translation. I will be happy to help out in passing them around when I am there. That is my favorite place to ride in Nantucket sound. I think spreading the word in this manner puts more pro-active responsibility on us as community.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 12:10
#40
English and French!
Sorry but not sure why we have to also do something in French
Canadians are multi lingual culture and they understand pretty well English and French
I think that some of the folks this weekend are not familiar with rules.. If you travel to Europe, South America and Africa there are not such thing as kite rules.. U do what you feel like..
So I think that's what happens this past weekend. those folks are not familiar with rules and the local authority should take consideration of that and not penalize the locals.
I don't think that was more then 10-15 local kiters
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 10:35
#43
KKK - Kape Kod Kooks, it has
KKK - Kape Kod Kooks, it has a nice ring to it!
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 11:37
#44
yeah umm great acronym to
yeah umm great acronym to reuse
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 21:24
#45
Jean you are dead on. Mighty
Jean you are dead on. Mighty kite you are dead wrong. Sailing vessels DO NOT have the right of way over everything!!! A sailing vessel under 20 meters does not have the right of way over a power vessel in a channel that must follow the channel. That puts kiters at the bottom of the list. Kites do not have to follow a channel at all!!! If you are kiting you have NO right of way over anything!!!
www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules.htm
Mighty you sound like you are the problem and you need a good ass kicking.
Jean I commend you for your actions and your feeling and you are right about the local chill spot. I was inside stage harbor last Saturday and even being a kiter I found it annoying! Though the hot Canuck was cute and we did lend her a pump so she could top off her leaking kite.
The inside of Stage is a place that must be used when traffic is light. Late in the day or crappy beach weather is fine. Other than that stay the hell out of there.
Thu, 07/01/2010 - 21:50
#46
You are right about signs.
[img_assist|nid=4572|title=Stay the hell out of Chatham!|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=480|height=360]
You are right about signs. This is the one sign we need.
Fri, 07/02/2010 - 17:42
#47
:|
J2MFE wrote:
Mighty you sound like you are the problem and you need a good ass kicking.
please don't threaten anyone on here. I'm sure you meant it as a joke, but that's not what anyone wants to see.
Fri, 07/02/2010 - 20:39
#48
Oh yes you are right. Lets
Oh yes you are right. Lets all have a group hug and thanks for phucking up the town I live in.
It that better?
Fri, 07/02/2010 - 21:10
#49
I hope the Mass Kiting crew
I hope the Mass Kiting crew realizes that the local Cape Codders, and especially the local Chatham kiters, have A LOT more at stake here than kiters from Off Cape. Try to see it from that point of view.
Sun, 07/04/2010 - 00:41
#50
What are you saying exactly?
What are you saying exactly?
This has been spoken about many times in the past. The short answer is being treated as a sailboat would be horrible for kiteboarders. We would be required to wear & have all the safety gear required of sailboats. Just stay out to the way of everyone else, we're much more mobile.
Johnny D I posted here because this forum has much further reach than NEKA. NEKA is about 10 people now, all very cool btw, but a small group. And the Masskiters have been descending on Hardings en masse, so this is the more appropriate spot, but I will post on NEKA also.
That sucks about the Canucks. Looks like the word is out up there. Last fall there were some decent size groups of Canucks, but they seemed to want to follow the rules. Please just do your best to explain to the northern retards what the rules of the road are here.
Btw, the only true locals are from Chatham, the rest of us are visitors and should respect that. Not that the Chatham crew isn't kooky enough, but you know what I mean.